Epic Loot Tournament, Sept 22rd, Centerville, Oh

We will be having a 3 round 1500 point tournament for Warhammer 40K on Sunday 22 September 2013 at Epic Loot (9130 Dayton-Lebanon Pike Centerville, OH 45458).  Entry price will be $10, which goes toward the tournament prizes for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places.
The tournament starts at 12:00 so please be at the shop and ready before that time.
Armies must use their current Codex and supplements.  Have available a copy of your codex, main rulebook, FAQ, and 3 copies of your army list.
Armies do not need to be painted but please make them what you see is what you get.
Allies and fortifications are allowed.
Missions will follow the standard Eternal War Missions.
Each round will be 2 hours.
Round 1 Will be Purge the Alien
Round 2 Will be Relic
Round 3 Will be Crusade with 5 Mysterious Objectives.
 
If you are in the current Escalation League you can count any of your games for the 1500 point level.

Off last weekend, work this weekend...story of my life these days.

Try working every weekend... story of my life the past 10 yrs.

trying to make a deal with the devil to get saturday off for this. even if i do...i'll have a 9 year old tag-a-long. hope she's lucky rolling dice!

it is on Sunday , I've verified with Will and Toby that it is on Sunday

I'm out on this one, have to work Sat. and I'm going to my mom's for lunch Sun.

Nice to see people implementing the point value I said is appropriate for 6e (not that I influenced them, I don't speak to their regulars frequently at all...just glad to see the evidence that people might be coming to the same realization).
Anything else is clumsy and unbalanced (moreso than the rules themselves currently are).

If it weren't EL, I'd consider it for the points...
frankly, might even consider it regardless (if work ever gives me 5 minutes).

(SHIT...nevermind, I didn't catch Sunday right off. My monthly D&D session is this Sunday...double-shit, actually REALLY had been considering this, 1500pts is quite a balancing factor, as silly as it might seem to some).

I spoke to Will at the last EGC tournament, he mentioned Epic was to have a tournament this month
asking the point level was he said originally 1850, I suggested 1500 and he said it made sense.

so I will be attending with Tyranids.

Work can't keep me down

Edge wrote:

Work can't keep me down

Lemme see what I can do about that for ya, buddy...

How does moving to 1500, "make Sense" for 6ed? Not Saying I disagree but what would deem it to "make Sense"?

i think that there is an escalation league going on and shares the same points value @1500. aside from that, 1500 keeps allies down (as you can't really afford the elites/fast attack/heavy support you are really taking allies for in most cases). it also keeps spam lists in a vulnerable spot as they can't truely spam too much of the same thing @1500 as opposed to 1850 or more.

when 6th first came out, all i played was 1500. tournaments went to 2k almost overnight and the cheese factor took over. that led to people picking 1850 as a nod to both the double force org cheesemongers and the tactical solo-dex 1500 crowd. you can get some really nasty lists at 1850. 1850 really limits the balancing act of double force or abuse of the heavy support slot/elites slot in the force org.

imo, 1500 is where the games are truely skill based. each desicion is pivotal. one false move and you skimping on troops costs you a game. taking no psychic defence and drawing Chaos demons and you are fighting an uphill battle, taking a tool-box list and getting your 1 anti-tank unit sniped T1 means you can't deal with those 2 Landraiders...ever. @1500 you see these problems, much MUCH moreso than you do at 1850 or above, where you can take 2-3 different answers for each portion of the meta.

Painnen wrote:

i think that there is an escalation league going on and shares the same points value @1500. aside from that, 1500 keeps allies down (as you can't really afford the elites/fast attack/heavy support you are really taking allies for in most cases). it also keeps spam lists in a vulnerable spot as they can't truely spam too much of the same thing @1500 as opposed to 1850 or more.
when 6th first came out, all i played was 1500. tournaments went to 2k almost overnight and the cheese factor took over. that led to people picking 1850 as a nod to both the double force org cheesemongers and the tactical solo-dex 1500 crowd. you can get some really nasty lists at 1850. 1850 really limits the balancing act of double force or abuse of the heavy support slot/elites slot in the force org.

imo, 1500 is where the games are truely skill based. each desicion is pivotal. one false move and you skimping on troops costs you a game. taking no psychic defence and drawing Chaos demons and you are fighting an uphill battle, taking a tool-box list and getting your 1 anti-tank unit sniped T1 means you can't deal with those 2 Landraiders...ever. @1500 you see these problems, much MUCH moreso than you do at 1850 or above, where you can take 2-3 different answers for each portion of the meta.

QFT

40k is a small skirmish game...1500 gives you the tactical wherewithall to do it.

Painnen wrote:

imo, 1500 is where the games are truely skill based. each desicion is pivotal. one false move and you skimping on troops costs you a game. taking no psychic defence and drawing Chaos demons and you are fighting an uphill battle, taking a tool-box list and getting your 1 anti-tank unit sniped T1 means you can't deal with those 2 Landraiders...ever. @1500 you see these problems, much MUCH moreso than you do at 1850 or above, where you can take 2-3 different answers for each portion of the meta.

Painnen beat me to a great deal of where my intent was directed, but I'll take it a bit further.

Time; 1500pts allows a standard format RTT to actually function in a day's time without players feeling skimped on, or constantly under the 'clock'.  This additional time allows for elements such as 'placed' terrain to be re-introduced, or more rounds, or longer breaks.  As a veteran of many tournaments/tournament styles/tournament systems/games, I can say that nothing is as draining as a FULL day event (SFB tourneys regularly started with the cock crow, and ended after 10...only to continue into the next day for finals).  If you're going to go to an event, ending it in high spirits WITH the energy to jaw about (or grab a few drinks) afterward is right-fun!

Logistics; 1500pts requires less in the way of time, but also table/terrain resources.  over 1850 really should have 8x4 to function properly, and over 2k nigh requires it.  1500 allows for true tactical maneuver and deployment of all army types at 6', whilst spreading a venue's (potentially limited) terrain resources over a greater number of surfaces (and also netting you an extra table per 24' in length for a square footage restricted venue).

Design; edition/codex incremental points drops continue to allow you to field more models for less with each edition.  When I was playing 2e, 2000pts could have you fielding fewer than 30 models.  Even with orks, you might see fewer models than you do with some modern 5/6e Imperial/Ally hybrid armies.  Add in the increase in vehicle frequency (mitigated some in this edition, but still far more prevalent than 2nd or 4th) and model count/footprint at anything over 1500 gets clumsy.  We saw that in 5e, with numerous games ending well before time (becoming a tactic even).  Add the complexity/higher model count/unit size increases, and games finishing on time over 1500pts are becoming a rarity...barring 2.5/3hr rounds (which goes back to point 1).


At 1500pts, ultimately, your toolbox becomes limited...and acumen becomes paramount.  The field is leavened...it's that simple.

The new rules for 2000pts++ are a method for the designers to implement an afternoon game of 'apoc-lite' without forcing players to delve into super-heavies and so forth.

Finally, the game itself was never (NEVER) intended for a tourney environment.  All games that began so, and grew into a tourney-friendly format, found some form of 'minimalist' level of function in order to allow for a faster/more balanced/friendlier/more manageable/quantifiable competitive system (tourney ships for SFB/Type II[etc] for MTG/play clocks for chess/etc etc etc).
As the community revolts at every mention of hobby-friendly/scenario blancing/army composition/sportsmanship focused 'tinkering', the great 'leveler' comes down to points...and the best 'value' for that is ultimately 1500.  All tools can be used, few (if any) tools can be abused and every army has its 'flavor' at that point limit.


Or more to the point,
any step that forces players to make the hard decisions...
is a step that also sorts the wheat from the chaff.

I really want to go to this. Sundays are much more accessible for me right now than Saturdays. Not to mention I need to start spreading some ML love to the locals. If I can go, I'll be taking GKs.

Painnen wrote:

I really want to go to this. Sundays are much more accessible for me right now than Saturdays. Not to mention I need to start spreading some ML love to the locals. If I can go, I'll be taking GKs.

Hope you can make it Painnen!

Good luck, guys!

Victory!!!

Nids take 1st Edge
Templar/Eldar 2nd Nate Gould
Chaos Marine 3rd Ken Crawford

I think 12 players total.

Too much to do at work. OT will have to do. Pretty pissed I couldn't go.

Congrats Edge!!!!!

Congrats, bro.  How'd you pull it off with a turn one loss? Details, man.

Congrats in the win btw!!! How I forgot to mention that idk.

Not a win/loss event.
Total pts. See battle report.

Thx guys.

Congrats Edge!