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painnen
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PostSubject: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:04 pm

got in yet another 6th Ed game yesterday. It was my third time with Tau but first time at the 1850pts level. So far I'm 3-0. Taking out Blood Angels, Necrons, and Grey Knights.

this last game was very exciting! winning in turn 7 by a full tabling of GKs! (I would have won T5 and T6 too).

I lost the roll to go 1st and made the mistake of not reading my opponent's list. Had I done so, I would have noticed the Manticore on the list because I could not see it on the board due to LOS blocking terrain. It took a heavy heavy toll on my army. I lost nearly 20 Firewarriors, 3-4 shield drones (from various units), and all my Pathfinders (1st blood for him) in the x2 turns it got to shoot.

We played Crusade (4 obj) and Hammer and Anvil deployment. 3 objectives were in my deployment zone so I knew he had a plan to come to me. I castled down and made the best of my list and Aegis Defence Line...

By my Turn2 I was pretty gutted. I only have 3 scoring troups at 1850 so losing one outright was brutal. The small 2-man unit did it's job, held tight to it's LD rolls and booked it behind LOS blocking terrain and onto an objective (where it camped the rest of the game). My only hope of stopping the pounding was to silence the Manticore. Luck was with me and I got all 3 crisis suits in. My Pathfinder Devilfish won MVP honors by keeping my Suits in perfect Deepstrike locations for rear/side/non-cover arcs into his vehicles. It took x2 units of suits to drop the Manticore and I could only manage to strip x2 HPs off a Psyfleman because of the lack of support on his side of the board, but it proved enough to swing the game back to neutral.

Turns 3-4 were deadly. He saved/jinked/smoked away every penetrating hit I had with 6 suits and 6 broadsides so he just kept punishing my dudes. I did have him completely hemmed in with my suits behind him and him out in the middle wishing he had another dred/HtH unit to deal with them.

Turn5-6 saw him fail some pretty epic Move-through-cover rolls, and my Commander made a nice 6up Deny the Witch roll to keep from being Warp Rifted into nothingness. With his moral broke, my opponent had to force his hand on both fronts. The Psybacks failed miserablely vs. my FireKnives in his deployment zone, and he had to break off IC's from a unit on terminators in hopes to handle all the contesting broadsides on the one objective he HAD to claim. Back to back charges by Coteaz and his Libby were thwarted by Overwatch fire from x2 2-man broadside teams as the insta gibbed the ICs on their way in.

Turn7 was clean up, as my suits cleaned up stragling acolyte warriors here and there for the tabling. In the end, it was 8-2. I got x2 objectives, Line breaker, and Warlord. He had 1st Blood and Warlord.
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Warmonger

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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:16 pm

Interesting report! With what little info there is on actual forces represented I take it that he was running a GK MSU style list with IG allies. It surprizes me that he took more shooting units with his allies instead of using them to fill the holes in his list. GK MSU's can already pour on the fire power. So it would seem to me that the allies should have been more assault oriented IMO and we all know Tau are squishy in HtH combat. Good stuff, thanks! Smile

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Painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:44 pm

That's why you are "the warmonger". He was running MSU GK, not enough of one thing to really break the game. 1flyer, one AV14, one dred, 4 transports, two psychors, and a unit of termies (cc based).

My list is shoot first and come up with a plan later. He came at me and I had counters. Not hard counters but enough to nueter his attacks. My MSU is nothing like his...

To fix his list, I'd get another flyer, drop the crusader, and add a dredknight somehow.but again, it was a "balanced" yet unbalanced list. Not broken enough.d
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:25 pm

Nice to see Tau laying out some pain instead of getting "bent over" like they usually do. They severally need a new dex.

Was this at the store or a private session?

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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:33 pm

It was at the Bookery on Wednesday. We call it Warhammer Wednesday. We usually bring 3-4, there are 1-3 new bloods, and 2-6 locals/WPAFB guys there every week.

All I'd really ask for from a new dex aside from shoring up points values, deleting the nonexhistant rules, etc. is a flyer or anti-flyer unit. The new rules for rapid fire make them much better IMO. Assaulting out of reserves and out of a vehicle being really nerfed helped a bunch too.

I've found that where in the past the strat is to fall back and shoot has kinda changed to step up, drop the vehicle, weather their return fire, and then fall back and shoot. The sudden advancing of the Tau towards their lines as well as aggressive deepstriking to flanks/behind enemy lines really puts the opposition in a pinch. Aegis lines, clever use of terrain, and random charge lengths make declaring long assaults too risky of an endevour vs. 7-24 Str5 shots during an overwatch (depending on unit they are going after) or even more risky vs. rapid fire plasma or flamers.

Their LD is where I think they need a big boost. I just can't justify spending 10 points per unit for LD8. Does such a "young" race/codex deserve fearless units? probably not but who's to say that they can't develop leaders who inspire their own? I just don't get the low LD across the codex.

So I guess I'd want x2 things once it's all said and done...LD8 base, LD9 squad leaders and some sort of either anti-flyer weoponry or a flyer of their own. I can handle them being w/out psykers...getting mucked up by flyers is another story.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:14 am

Great write up..

Tau was a little harder to play but always a decent army I felt. In fact I have argued several times that at the end of 5th they are a great match up against GK's most times. They have the tools to get the job done just are one of those armies that is truly punished by bad dice because its so hard to recover from or from in game mistakes...


How late are you guys there on Wednesdays? I might be interested in trying to show up and having your Tau kick around my Gk's one of these weeks... =P Also do you guys normally play the rule book missions? Edge and I played the Nova style missions so I was wondering your thoughts on how the rule book missions are compared to like what you would see at a tourney?
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:38 pm

Thanks for the reply. As far as the GK matchup, IMO Tau has equal shooting if not better. Our CC is terrible however whereas GK do very well. I think a crafty general can run a Tau army to modest success in 6th ed. I would stress that they need a flyer/anti-air unit pretty bad. Looking to allies for a flyer is pretty much all you can do w/out playing at a disadvantage. Problem I have with Tau allies is that very few allies actually offer solid HtH choices from their HQ and Troop slots. I can't see looking in another codex for allies with Tau that help you shoot any better, just to get their flyer. Kinda like paying a high tax rate for something you can get on sale.

Wednesdays we show up at 11am and leave around 7pm. The store officially closes at 7 but for as long as I can remember, they have stayed "open" for D&D games going on that night. Recently they have had people reserving tables afterhours for 40k but APOC points. He always welcomes us to stay if we wish. I'd say pick a week and I can get it worked out if you can't make it before 5-6.

It would also help me if I knew when you were coming. I play GK (Coteaz MSU, Purifiers, and Paladins), Dark Eldar, and now Tau. I only ever bring one army with me because I have too much stuff to bring it all and guess. I usually let everyone know what I'm bringing the next week and go from there.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:15 pm

I agree Tau lack hth, I have a friend that has been playing htem with orks and having some success. As he puts it nice cheap useful bubble wrap for the win... Also its never shabby to have large annoying troops to hold the middle.. Tau do currently and will suffer from anti Air I think until after a new book drops. Not sure the best way to resolve that though... My buddy has been taking the ork plane to help with that, but basically if they are a flyer heavy army be ready for the pain.. =P although lots of things are still growing pains currently IMO. Since the new edition is so new, plus we are going to get new units and codexs shuffled in before the meta can figure out what is going on...

I might be able to pull off showing up this wednesday that would be my only shot. AFter that my wife will be back in school and our schedules will shift and Wednesdays will be a no go for me.. (Such is life) I'll post back here and let you know by monday if I can.

You could play anything you like so don't worry about that I don't really mind, Its more the player than the army that I enjoy.. Playing a net list army but a newer or a casual player vs someone who enjoys the game at a higher level is just completely on another level, and can be very one sided which isn't fun for either party. Short of pulling punches... I don't mind being utterly destroyed personally as long as I get to test units or try things out. =P One of the bigger reasons I started playing with these guys.. It's nice to be able to play against people who wanted to bring the pain and aren't annoyed, or offended when you brought something they consider too mean...



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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:21 pm

Off Wednesday myself as well as a couple usual pals, so if you can make it just drop me a line and I'll make sure I tutor the new kid and wait for your arrival. Tau is fine by me for our game.

I didn't mean to duck your Mission question. To be honest, 6th is so new for most people that I've enjoyed sticking to the basics. Near the end of 5th I couldn't stand the book missions anymore. We'd often combine missions and try everything from adepticon missions, to missions popular on the west coast etc.

When they get wonky is when I really prefer to cut the crap out. If I sign up for a tournament, then I'll live with whatever scenarios everyone else is stuck with but I'd prefer something alittle more structured.

I've played scenarios where you use x3 book/homebrew missions in a Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary point system. I've played where winning the Primary means you win the whole game. I've played where you win by claiming any 2 out of the 3 scenarios. I've played where Primary is worth 10, Secondary is worth 7, and Tertiary is worth 3, and the highest total wins. Out of all those winning conditions, the only one that translates to 6th is the last one (based off point values) where 1st Blood, Warlord, and Line Breaker can help break ties.

It doesn't really matter much to me what the winning format is, as long as it's clear. I hardly believe GW balances this game beyond the last codex released, and therefore don't think they put enough thought in their winning conditions. For instance, after 6th's initial release, I thought that 1st Blood was more-less countered by Line Breaker. Since 1st blood was likely to be who went first and Line breaker was most likely to be scored by who goes second...this has not proved to be the case. Not only because BOTH players can score Line Breaker but by getting 1st Blood! you are winning the game right from the start. In 33% of the missions you are fighting over 1-2 objectives. You build a strong enough Anvil and 1st Blood is a huge, often insurmountable obsticle for your opponent.

So, I don't have a huge preference to winning condtions. Table Quarters, KPs, old school VPs, just as long as both scoring the condition as well as who/what can contest the scoring of said conditions is perfectly clear. TOs do a great job of having a vision of how they want a mission to play out but the proof is in the pudding that book missions are simple for a reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:10 pm

I got my schedule shifted a bit this week so Wednesday is a no go for me. Just a heads up.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:06 pm

I can be there this wed...I'll take your Tau on...should be there around 1pm or earlier.

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Painnen
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PostSubject: ....   Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:31 pm

Nice! The fish go "squish" tomorrow then.
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:26 pm

I'd say that I let him win but...I did nothing of the sort.
I'd say I put up a good fight but...I did nothing of the sort.
I'd say he tabled me but...he did nothing of the sort. (thanks for rolling the '2')

I was on a roll. Winning my first 5 games with Tau (ever btw) but it was not to be on the 6th. Got pounded 9-1 in Big Guns Never Tire vs. Imp.Guard/GK. (that dred was worth 1).

Got seized. Gave up 1st Blood from the Manitcore and from there it was an assortment of toolbox goodness maximizing AP2 after enough small arms fire could get my shield drones out of the way.

Not alot I would do differently. Nearly all his vehicles had Instant Death AP2 firepower so there wasn't a real good way to mitigate every firing angle and still be able to bring enough Str10 AP1 to the table to quiet him.

I couldn't castle in a table half due to the Manticore so I was forced to dig in the center and use LOS to save what I could walking on for another objective in my deployment zone.

I'm not changing up the list though. I think I'm going to HAVE to change the list for when I end up playing "The Relic" but for now, I have to continue to test the effectiveness of the Firewarriors w/out Transports. I think if I go too far into Fish-o-Fury then I'll lose some suits and that's just not something I really want to do at this point. The Bodyguard for the Shas'O' could go, too. I'd consider the Iridium Armor for him and ditch the sheild drones, put him in a squad and man the gun but I just like my suits hopping around as of yet.

Great game on Edge's part. His list is really solid.
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PostSubject: Re: Tidbit from 6th Ed.   Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:54 pm

Thanks for the game Painnen.

Like I said, my list was the last incarnation of my 'Tool-box' IG from 5e with a 500 pt GK Contingent to get the Callidus Assassin and Dread.

Before Seize (didn't need Coteaz for that) I was really worried from the spread offense you deployed and concentrated center mass, Crisis in reserve and if my Leman's went down I didn't have a chance.

After Seize I was relieved, due to the Manticore, but still worried until I could remove ALL the Broadsides.

My list:
CCS Plasma x4, Carapace, PF ; Chimera HF
Melta Vets ; Vendetta SSHB
Melta Vets ; Vendetta SSHB
Ratlings x4
Marbo
Manticore
Exterminator Las, SSHB
LRBT HF, SSHB

Coteaz
Plasma Acolytes x3 ; PAssback
Callidus
Psyfleman

The GK Ally replaced a Hellhound MM, 1 Ratling and 2 Mounted Plasma Vet squads.
Meant to add to the tool-box threat and give me a second backfield distraction and second support torrent unit.

I liked your list and playing against it made me rethink my Tau. I do believe you need at least 1 mobile Troop. Maybe 1 or 2 Kroot units?

I agree to drop the Commander BG and give it Iridium.

For me what gave me the upperhand IMO were the Manticore early game, the LRBT vs Crisis Reserve and the Grav Chute Insertion at the end.

The fight was good until dice were rolled, you had me on notice with deployment. I think your dice failing you for a turn with almost everything didn't help matters.

Thanks again.

I should be there next Wed with Chaos Marines if you want to test them.

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