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Exitus Acta Probat

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PostSubject: Allies/Imotekh   Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:06 pm

as neither of us could find a specific reference...(charles and I played a game today),
here are the pertinent rules,
BRB pg 112, Allies of Convenience;
"Units in your army treat allies of convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, teargeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed...."(emph mine)
Necron Codex pg 55, Lord of the storm;
"...whilst the night fighting rules remain in play, roll a d6 for each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield at the start of each necron shooting phase. On a roll of a 6, that unit is struck by a bolt of lightning and suffers d6 strength 8, ap 5 hits..."

Okay, try to ignore any discussion online outside this..just think in the context of what we have in these two rules entries (there is no precedent I can find, and the FAQ does not address directly).

So, do you have roll to hit allies (of convenience) with your lightning?

it has all the hallmarks of a shooting attack, sans LOS.
For me, I think not...and with my discussion early on, Charles agreed. at the end we discussed it further, and I still think I am correct...BUT, what do you all think?
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Edge

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:41 pm

Allies of Convenience are hit by the Lightning Storm.

I say this because:
The AoC is treated as an enemy unit that cannot be shot, etc but the Lightning Storm is not a shooting attack per se even though it does happen at the beginning of the Shooting Phase. The Lightning Storm affects the Battlefield, an Area Effect if you will which the AoC does get 'hit' by because they are 'enemy units'.

If the Tyranids could have Allies, the Doom's Spirit Leech would affect the Ally also.

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:00 pm

I agree with Edge on this. It's not a shooting attack that is controlled, it's battlefield wide, with a chance of hitting all enemies. With AoC they are considered still an enemy, thus hit by the storm.

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Exitus Acta Probat

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:28 am

Edge wrote:

If the Tyranids could have Allies, the Doom's Spirit Leech would affect the Ally also.

Just had to get in that little dig, didn't you! Razz Wink


While I don't wholly agree with either of you, I didn't agree with 'Monger on the ChronoTek/Imotekh combo either...and was wrong per FAQ...so I will bow to the consensus.
It will likely be addressed in the next round of FAQ's anywho (as will other things, such as Epidimius eating grots and so forth) so I will bow to the opinions thus far voiced, and start bombarding my paladins with 'scawy scawy lightning!'.

Why I don't agree?
If it were wholly uncontrolled (per Mack) it could hit your primary detach units as well...and with some control, Imotekh would be motivated to 'guide' it away from (temporary) allies.

And in all regards but LOS, it is handled like a shooting attack (though with the introduction of AP in CC, that parallel is gone now).

It is a 'slippery slope' argument in my direction, though, and I have to look at RAI for balance...not just my take on the physical rules. Allies add that little tweak in rules-think, and I kinda don't mind that in the least! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:52 am

To quote some one that I can't remember;

Rulebook trumps codex.

Given that, I would be inclined to say no based on pg. 112 of the rulebook taking precedence. Howwver, I have been weong before....
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Drkmorals
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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:40 am

Rulebook trumps codex is backwards Phil =P

Codex has always trumped rulebook other wise a ton of special rules or abilities basically don't work.
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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:42 am

Brain deprived of coffee juice....
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Drkmorals
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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:50 am

Quote :
Brain deprived of coffee juice

This is a acceptable excuse.. I pardon you in the name of the Emperor... +++Cancel execution orders..

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:32 pm

Drkmorals wrote:
Quote :
Brain deprived of coffee juice

This is a acceptable excuse.. I pardon you in the name of the Emperor... +++Cancel execution orders..


Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:51 am

and upon further reading (something always prompted by games/mistakes with new codices/rules), I realized my focus was too intent on one part of the 'allies of convenience' section, and not the whole entry.

my keyword was 'shoot', and I saw Imotekh's lightning as 'shooting' with exceptions to the LOS/Targeting...but further into the section on proscribed actions, it specifically adds abilities 'or other ability affects an area'. basically, I locked onto the bold-type in that rules section, and kind of glossed over the rest in a TLDNR moment...an unforgivable transgression.

I think that definitely covers it, as you gentlemen (and I use the term loosely) were espousing. So yes, the Paladins I used were probably the only viable choice for survivability...as I should have had them in the rolling rotation (and as you can ask Charles, I was rolling an average of 3 6's a turn after #1...so likely woulda caught them at least once).

I concede good sirs.

I both love, and occasionally hate, BRB transitions...I hope I'm settled on my edition flux before the next big event! Shocked Very Happy
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Edge

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PostSubject: Re: Allies/Imotekh   Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:07 pm

Exitus Acta Probat wrote:
I concede good sirs.

Very Happy

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