EGC 40K tournament on Dec 21st Saturday 10 am 1850 points

Saturday December 21, 2013 All Day

$10 entry all back in for prize support.
1850 points
3 rounds
2 hours

Must have legitimate codex and any required materials including Rulebook and supplement if needed.

Where?

Sorry, didn't transfer all the way.

Eastside Games and Cards

Is digital a legit codex?

I was just wondering because I have already sold all of my codexs and my rulebook. I may need to know for the future.

I am assuming so as long as you have it for reference for the opponent. GW's position on the ebooks has changed the dynamic of the tournament scene. The requirement to have reference material available for your opponent doesn't change, no matter the source.

Makari??? What is the position of CAG?

Correct, however it must be a legitimate legally obtained digital copy.
also here is more for this one:

For the tournament @ Eastside Games N Cards Saturday Dec 21 2013 we are testing the following:
Warhammer 6th edition Rules
Most Current Codex
Supplemental Codices- including digital
Data Slates- from GW http://www.blacklibrary.com/2013-advent
Escalation- including Forgeworld escalation http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf
Stronghold Assault

We cannot ask for changes without seeing how these play out. We encourage everyone to come out HAVE FUN and help us make an informed decision. While yes we feel there may be adjustments needed we are not sure which ones are appropriate at this time. After this tournament we will go over all the feedback to make a better experience for everyone. I understand the apprehension to embrace these and we are not blind to the possibility of banning them either, we want to be as open as possible.

All legitimate copies of rules are needed to play in the tournament.
An example would be: If you want a Tyranid Scythed Heirodule you will need a Rulebook for 40k, Tyranid Codex, Escalation Codex and the Imperial Armoury Apoc book.

e will be adding an additional 30 minutes before each round to set fortifications and terrain. You can also roll for warlord traits, psychic powers etc. at this time.

Please continue any questions and concerns here on facebook or www.513CAG.com forums.

Thanks. See u there.

hahahaha, i'm glad i'm not going to this. i'll never go to a tournament in which i'm required to bring my own personal 40k liberary just to play a game. i can see copies of your list and maybe a few photocopies of odd rules like the alternate escalation warlord table but come on...

do you really need to bring a tablet with the inq. suppliment on it and a GK codex just to run Coteaz by himself. that's rediculous. imagion if you were White scars main, Eldar secondary, used the Tau Cadre, Coteaz, a void shield generator, and if points allowed a Thunderhawk. That's lugging 7 books and up to two tablets/i-phones just to play a game. I could just as easily photocopy their entries and special rules pages into a binder. might take up 10 pages tops.

/shake my head

no hard feelings btw. i do hope someone brings a revenant, 3 crimson hunters, a void sheild generator w/+2 shields, a farseer on jetbike, an autarch, and 3 units of windrider jetbikes. it's like a recipe for the pure hatred of others and just happens to be the lamest 1850 list i've been able to come up with for 40k Steriod Edition.

i think it fears nothing but another revenant. if the farseer gets seer's vision you pretty much have full control over your reserves. i have yet to see the revenant lose to another SH so far in playtesting (aside from another revenant but admittingly i've not tested against 'nids since they are getting a new dex shortly anyways).

Painnen please tell me what tournaments you go to that do not require you to have the source material? This was a very asinine statement "hahahaha, i'm glad i'm not going to this. i'll never go to a tournament in which i'm required to bring my own personal 40k liberary just to play a game. i can see copies of your list and maybe a few photocopies of odd rules like the alternate escalation warlord table but come on..." I dare you to Bring something in a list to a tournament that you do not have the source book for, as a T.O. if your opponent calls me over to ask a question about it and you cannot provide the source for it the model will be removed, even if JoeBob behind you has a copy of the rules. This is how tournaments are run.

Photocopies are not accepted unless you show you have the books. Any tournament that allows you to run off faith in people not cheating, is cheating itself. Why is this such an issue for you? Do you not see the issues that could potentially happen if the source book is not available? Army Builder can be manipulated as well as any of the other programs for army lists, "photocopies" can be manipulated as well.

And I am not even covering the GW discontinuing the ability to order from them if a store is caught not requiring source material.

With the rules and supplements expanding (codex, supplements, datasheets...), requiring original source is a must IMHO. I would only attend events requiring book/ebook. If you have a concise reference for playing in a binder to avoid lugging books table to table, that's one thing. Some pdf dowloaded off a site, fuzzy photo copy, photo-shopped datasheet, made up rules - nope.

Makari, I've never met you so forgive me for asking who you are and what you do for a living? If I had to guess is say you either work for the Obama administration or you are the sultan of a third world country. Telling another American that their opinion is asinine is exactly what I'd expect of a spoiled little prick that thinks too highly of their own opinions.

I'm not impressed with you so far from what I've read from any of your posts and discussions. You of what you want and say what you want and that is always the bottom line.

What you are saying is that if someone questioned whether coteaz had T3 and I didn't have the GK codex on me then you'd remove the model over saying yes?

What you saying is that if a father brings in his son for his first tournament and they are sharing the one SpaceMarine codex they need to play at home that one would be DQ'd?

You sir have an over inflated sense of self. I don't like you at all and I never met you face to face. I'll never go to one of your events nor will I recommend it to xnyone. You make quick belittling remarks if you feel your awesomeness is being challenged, when there is always room for another's perspective to consider as I presented in my two examples.

Wow Chris
you are way way way the fuck off base
all I can say is please stop the bickering. Macari has a position and is a TO for our event .
you have a position but have never played any of his event.
my suggestion to you chris is to show up on the 21st and see what happens
who knows you might even like the event

Way out of hand dudes!!!!

Makari runs a good event, I've been to many.

Ok, and I thought Sean and I bickered...
you two are like oil and water all of a sudden!

Pain; yes, Mak can come off as a bit pretentious...but often has to do with where he is when he responds, and what he's responding to.
As a TO, he has been under attack non-stop (from the community as a whole) for the end of 5th/beginning of 6th due to the flux of the hobby/balance/tourney meta/community...
I was a TO for as long as there has been a formal tournament system for this game, and only recently hung up my 'hat' (time constraints due to local store close/new spawn).
He's under stress, both from the community and the company he loves (has worked for).

Mak; he's new, and you are coming off as pretentious (to a certain degree). Scale it back. Not everyone understands the need for the actualy material, both from a legitimacy standpoint (that TO's HAVE to consider at all times) and a store advocate/employee. I had to gently tell more people that I care to remember to NOT bring out their pirated material in my store...to preserve my bottom line, and insure my 21 game table rent was being paid for monthly (ie; sales, not 4chan photocopies)...but unless it was a constant/repeat offender, I stayed away from getting insulting.


fer crissake guys, I AM THE ONLY ASSHOLE ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM...FUCKING HUG AND MOVE ON!

I will take this time to remind you both that you are talking to each other in a club forum because you are club mates. You are battle brothers, and should at the very least give each other the benefit of the doubt.

We don't all get along or agree, and we are all welcome to bicker. (Hell other wise several of us couldn't post) having said that there is no reason to attack each other in this manner. Both of you should back up a step and look at how you are approaching each other. Even more so since you haven't met and talked in person and we all know that our tone, and personality can come across differently online.

When in doubt old jokes are always ok and some spirited trash talking of course... =P

Discuss a issue, let's not get out of hand gentlemen.

I'll take note of all your comments and honor your wishes to back off the podium on this one. I felt like I was being spit on with the comment he made reguarding my opinion. I wasn't about to back off then.

My point is clearly this.

"It is unreasonable to wield such wanton power as to remove/ban a model or DQ a player for not bring upwards to 16 different resources of information requarding his army."

And I do mean 16 different forms of information reguarding a single 2k plausable army list. I'll never do it. I have it. I own it. I have no problems organizing the portions that are applicable to my army in a nice neat orgaized folder along with x3 copies of my list but I won't be lugging around half a bookshelf worth of crap to play a game of 40k.

Now I have gleened that the cause of such an obligation is due to piracy and the fact that (I guess) you own a gaming store. Don't know what to tell you here my friend aside that you're ruling as posted has some serious "need for acceptions" that other TO's would likely agree with.

To defend my postion of not going to your event or future events let me just say this "nicely". If I were to go, I'd likely not go alone. The leading reason why I wouldn't go with a group is that say I bring 5 other people (very likely I have alot of people that work for me that play) only 1-2 might own a Grey Knight Codex. I'd say with the current rules as they are allowed, I think all would be bringing Coteaz/Inq. I wouldn't expect them all to go out and pay $40 on a codex that 2 of us will have laying around over a 2 page entry and a $10 model. Under your rule, they'd lose the model. Sounds heavyhanded to me. So, to keep from having a blow up an hour and fifteen minutes from my house, I'd just stay home. I wouldn't be playing in a tournament but we'd all still get to play on the tables here. We lose, you lose.

To defend my postion on being insulted by the word "asinine" with reguards to my opinion. Well, that is simple. My opinion was not in fact asinine. Your stance on this issue, as posted by you, has some flaws in it where you as a TO would in fact have to make some douchy calls if in fact you upheld your stipulations, word for word, for playing in your event.

I hope this is the nature and tone you all hope is used on these forums when apparent alpha males collide. I can be a dick but very much prefer not to be. Having kids really changed my stance on "being a dick and not caring about it". I'm used to being able to say what I want to say and then if I'm countered with facts and figures then react accordingly. I don't always have to win an arguement nor do I enjoy participating in them. I can change my tone if it's clear I crossed the line (as is the case here).

I'll end with this. I love to compete. I love 40k. I don't get to play in as many tournaments as I'd like. I'm ALWAYS the first person to break plans for a tournament to help/care for/or be with family or friends in need. I hate missing out on the games but I sacrifice for others. When it comes to looking for tournaments to participate in (as this one qualifies) it irks me when there is some exterior barrier keeping me from attending it. I felt the need, as I often do, to comment about it. Could have gone an entirely different way had I responded with any ammount of tact but alas, that didn't happen. To the guild I'm sorry. I'm new so you all are probably scratching your head. To Makari, well I stand unmoved in my opinion to not participate but I offer you an apology for my conduct against your charactor and as a fellow member of ML.

thank you Chris much better
I hope you change your mind about the event and show because it is a good time
it is likely the last one of the year

I want to say that I understand where both of you are coming from however again while online it seems you are miles apart I would suspect in person not so much on this issue.

Having been to several events Sean has thrown I want to say for the most part the same spirit of the game is there. I have seen Sean allow people play when they didn't even bring a codex at all because they forgot it. I have seen people show up, not know there was an event and scribble one list on some random paper. Sean has at the same time loaned books, or models to people to be able to show up and play... I am not defending him my point is having been there in person. He just wants people to play and encourage the community to show up more often. We don't always see agree on things either..

If you tell your opponent I didn't bring a codex, I am sharing one with so and so. It will always be fine. You are both just using extreme examples which isn't the point. This is again one of those in person I am sure you both would figure this out but online tone and such get lost. Despite what he posted for example if you contacted him and said you had a group of guys to bring, but you wanted to share a couple codex between 2 of you and another 2 between the other three. Unless it became a issue while playing I am sure he wouldn't care... Also knowing the community someone else there would lend a book if it helped out during a game...

However if you are using Coteaz as a INQ Allie and not a GK Allie. I would expect you to have the INQ book.. What if I have a question about the rules of using INQ allies? What if I ask if he's the same in that book vs the other book? It's my job as a player to be able to show you my armies rules if asked...That's my opinion on that.. Perhaps others feel differently.

BUCKEYES!!!           

Painnen I want to clarify a few things for you Please.
I do not own any store and not invested in any one store, but on a rare occasion cover the store for Clint at Eastside games and cards as I have done with a few other stores. I was an on Call Manager with Games Workshop and covered about 10 stores.
I have been playing Games Workshop games since 1993, it is one of my many hobbies in which i am very passionate about.
As Mike mentioned, and I really didn't get it until he said it how bothered I am right now, about how the community has taken to full call to arms about all these new bells and whistles for 40k and they want answers now. During the course of 3 days I have had 88 separate discussions about how CAG will handle these new rules. From local stores, to T.O. looking for fellow T.O. advice, from the casual gamer to the hard core tournament player.
It gets exhausting, I apologize for my reaction. It was not an attack on you when I said that was an asinine statement, but instead what you said... I hope you understand what I'm saying there. When you made that comment it set me off because you felt I was forcing you to do all these things like it was a new thing that only I enforced. When I asked where do they allow play like this was not a shot at you but to honestly find out who does this and how does it work for them. I cannot myself just allow my personal feelings be my sole guide in making rulings I must be just and fair. So I really do want to talk to other T.O. and how they handle things as they come up because it inevitably shows up in my Tournaments.
As Drkmorals mentioned I keep a library of most codices at the store for people who need to borrow them including FAQs and rulebooks dice templates etc... Why do I have these rules in place in my tournaments? Because they are copy and pasted from Major and Local Tournaments. It also prevents the unfortunate happenings of Krystal Keep many many Moons ago. A 40k tournament was held 4th ed maybe? New codex i think it was Space Marine was released, and i think 24ish participants if I remember correctly, 16 were space Marine Players only 4 had bought the codex and the others were thinking they would use so n so's book or store copy... Many had army builder lists... Not many people finished their games properly that day, it caused a mix up with the top 4 players as people talked about "cheating".
I try to be as accommodating as possible and flexible as needed without bending the rules. In 8 Years of running Cincy Tournaments only 1 time did I ask a player to either buy the codex ASAP or leave the tournament. I had 2 complaints about him and not knowing his rules, My codex was being used already for someone who reserved it. he was shocked but happily complied. I didn't want to have to enforce that but as a T.O. it is my responsibility to make sure that all players have their required Products. I try not to interfere but if it is brought up then I need to take care of it.
I understand that if you run certain lists that the haul can be quite large, in a tournament setting where any rule can be called in to question it is your burden to produce those rules Per Adepticon, NOVA, Throne of Skulls, any standard GT(using GT rules), Las Vegas Open etc... It is less likely to happen in a local tournament that is store run but when you get travelers from Michigan, Louisville, Dayton, Indy, Columbus, Cleveland, etc... I try to make it as mainstream for those travelers and locals with as little issue when possible. I'm not offended if this stops you from coming to my tournaments everyone has their Hobby and plays it and cares for it in their own way and I'm ok with that. I do not have the luxury to please everyone. I would prefer and would be happy if you could come down and Play in tournaments or at the very least CAGBASH 2014 @ Cincycon in March (shameless Plug sorry). I test at the smaller tourneys all my rules to get feedback to improve my tournaments. I just do not see the tournaments being able to change the rules to allow people to be sharing codices and not have rulesets readily available especially with this run GW is on producing all this stuff.
Oh and no Not an Obama Administrator oi ve I'd Likely kill myself... Lol.
Anywho yes I was being a dick and I apologize I'll try to keep prospective and think more BEFORE I type. Holidays aren't helping at the moment, You wanted to know what I do for a living? Currently I'm unemployed due to an ongoing disability within the last 2 years. But I am a classically Trained/Certified Chef of 20 Years with 10 of that working in a Flavor Lab! I know it was a rhetorical question but seriously if you knew me more I'm a likable asshole with a weird sense of humor. I also do a lot of promoting our hobby and the American Cancer Society doing charity work where I can to combine the 2...
So back on Topic...?

See, not so bad, a Stompa hugging a Revenant. *cuddles*    

Deep breath...release...relax. Games are supposed to be fun   

Exitus Acta Probat wrote:

...

fer crissake guys, I AM THE ONLY ASSHOLE ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM...FUCKING HUG AND MOVE ON!

EAP thanks for owning the a-hole role   

Pain and Mak, the tone has definitely changed.  As someone already mentioned, I would expect different reactions had the discussion taking place face to face.  Forums, emails and such can cause misinterpretations.

I am making plans to attend. I will be playing cold because I still recovering from school, but it'll be good to see my battle bros - whether we agree on the TO's format or not.

Wayno wrote:

BUCKEYES!!!           

Ooooh, how soon some of us forget where we came from!

Anyway, if there are any more arguments in the future here, I request that thee arguers use "magenta lettering" so we know of the newest angry posts.  

I am converted!!!