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Painnen
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PostSubject: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:22 am

I was just about to post x3-4 potential builds for Tau in 6th Ed. when my daughter wakes up from her slumber and wants to play some Star Wars! Can't pass that up. Will post them by the end of the day for your critique.
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:25 pm

Tau 1850:

HQ:
Shas'El w/Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, Black Sun Filter, Irridium Armor, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Elites:
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Troops:
x12 Fire Warriors w/Squad Leader Upgrade, Devilfish
x12 Fire Warriors w/Squad Leader Upgrade, Devilfish
x20 Kroot

Heavy Support:
x2 Broadsides w/Twin-Linked Railguns, Smart Missile Systems, Targeting Arrays, Team Leader w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x2 Broadsides w/Twin-Linked Railguns, Smart Missile Systems, Targeting Arrays, Team Leader w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line w/Quad Gun
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:27 pm

Tau 1850:

HQ:
Shas'El w/Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, Black Sun Filter, Irridium Armor, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Elites:
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x3 Crisis Suits w/Twin-Linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers, Team Leader Upgrade w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Troops:
x12 Fire Warriors w/Squad Leader Upgrade, Devilfish
x20 Kroot
x20 Kroot

Fast Attack:
Pirahna w/Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, x2 Gun Drones

Heavy Support:
x2 Broadsides w/Twin-Linked Railguns, Smart Missile Systems, Targeting Arrays, Team Leader w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones
x2 Broadsides w/Twin-Linked Railguns, Smart Missile Systems, Targeting Arrays, Team Leader w/Hard Wired Black Sun Filter, Hard Wired Drone Controller, x2 Shield Drones

Fortifications:
Aegis Defence Line w/Quad Gun
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Exitus Acta Probat

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:31 pm

too few troops in both lists.
the ability to gank entire troop units ramped up in this edition, and even with judicious application of reserves/sight blocking (etc), you cannot ensure the survivability of scoring units.
even taking into consideration missions which may add your Hvy Supp (or other) elements into the scoring mix, it's just not enough to insure objective scoring viability (coupled with the fact your Hvy Supp is too slow to secure anything but backfield objectives if that's how the mission rolls).

6e armies won't be able to survive without being able to handle sudden shifts in objective priority (either by survivable, mobile troops...or swamping the target objectives) AND the ability to survive (or deliver, or preferably both) a well applied alpha strike.
these lists will find it extremely difficult to handle the first (and, IMHO, most important) of those criterion.
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:20 pm

if that ends up the case then Tau are just completely boned in this edition. There is no way to make Tau Troops killy. Taking Tau troops just makes your list a pile of crap. They have horrible LD and no armor worth typing about...

take allies? yeah right. there is an HQ tax just to try it. I might be inclined to take something that can morph into a scoring deathstar (draigo plus 10 paladins comes to mind) but they'd most likely take either the Crisis suits and/or Broadsides place. If you lose both of them, you're better off running pure Draigowing and dismissing Tau all together.

Tau Troops suck...can't say it enough. taking more is bad. you say taking more is a must. Tau is bad?! I hope not...
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Exitus Acta Probat

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:10 am

Yes, unfortunately...Tau operate better with/as an ally at this stage, rather than a primary.
IG bring some pain to their list (as an ally) as well, complimenting the army focus.

FW and Kroot both gimp the codex, but IMHO you still need more baseline scoring units.

Orks can work well as well.

The other option you mentioned, GK insertion, is also not bad.



I have to face that my Deathwing have similar issues...regardless of 'survivability'/viability of troops, I am still running too few scoring units (but I've always accepted the weaknesses inherent in DW, they just became more pronounced in this edition).



note; Tau are not alone in the 'I need allies' boat...IMHO there are only 3 codices that can currently operate without a 'need' for allies;
GK
IG
Necrons(up to a point)

Even the vaunted SW have some minor issues that need addressing (chief amongst them is the inability to Combat Squad, upping their scoring potential as needed).

GK can combat squad a very solid troop choice
IG can spam troops (in blobs or squads) and flyers
Necrons have the greatest spread of 6e 'tricks' out there, and can spam some of the most useful flyers in the game.

Tau get none of this without allies (nor do a great number of current 5e armies, 'competitive' or not by current webbernetz/common sense wisdom).
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:57 am

EAP wrote:
Quote :
too few troops in both lists.

He's been saying that about my Necron lists but I still haven't bought into it 100%. I think it really depends on what you expect from them. Play test, play test, play test, that will give you the real answer to your question.

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:30 am

Tau cannot field something equivalent to 18 wraiths and two destroyer Lords.
regardless, I stand by my statement regarding your list...as the environment adapt to the new norms, you're going to find yourself having issues in that regard.

Though you are correct, play test everything! if nothing else, that will guide you in the direction you need to fill holes.
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:34 pm

EAP wrote:
Quote :
you're going to find yourself having issues in that regard
.

I guess I need someone to really punish me in that regard to teach me a lesson, beat me, punish me, abuse me pleeease!! Oh shit wrong website affraid Laughing


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Edge

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:59 pm

Warmonger wrote:
EAP wrote:
Quote :
you're going to find yourself having issues in that regard
.

I guess I need someone to really punish me in that regard to teach me a lesson, beat me, punish me, abuse me pleeease!! Oh shit wrong website affraid Laughing


Correct website, wrong person to do that to you... Very Happy

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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:33 pm

OUCH!!! here I thought I had a chance at beating Monger. Maybe not with my new-yet-old-toys in Tau but with some other codex.

that or you guys have a sexually challenged dominatrix that lurks on these boards that I'm not aware of.
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:03 pm

Quote :
or you guys have a sexually challenged dominatrix that lurks on these boards that I'm not aware of.

" It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it is told."


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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:14 pm

I would say that likely, no...you could not beat Monger's Wraithwing with a pure Tau build (though anything is possible, and your effort is not a waste, just hamstrung by an outdated book)...

apparently, by prior comments, I (on the other hand) should prove to be easy pickings.
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:32 pm

EAP wrote:
Quote :
apparently, by prior comments, I (on the other hand) should prove to be easy pickings.

Not sure what comments your refering too, but per our conversation after our game at the bookery you said that you could have hamstrung me by taking out my troops but didn't do so. Why I'm not sure, but those are lessons I need to help improve my lists. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:50 pm

I got over confident, and punished for a failed charge ...

Sorry, that jibe was for Edge, and should have had a 'Wink' after it.
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painnen
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PostSubject: ...   Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:54 pm

Oh good lord no, I couldn't harbor a win with Tau vs. that Wraithwing army.(sorry 'monger, that's its name)

Spammable Str8 or a Deathstar based army is about the only things that would do well vs. that build. I'd say 1st Company could do it through a battle of attrition though.


...and you guys are entertaining to say the least.
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Actually the name should be Wraithstorm from Monger.... he was running it way before the codex or anyone else.

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:38 pm

Mike and myself had this discussion awhile back and while there may have been others running it in different parts of the country nobody was running it here or even thought about it and the Internet was devoid of any claims to it at the time. Everybody was running Destroyers and thought Wraiths sucked (back in 4th edition). So I will at least claim 1st in this region and dawned it the Wraithstorm.

Mike explained how Destroyer-wing and what not derived from Deathwing got started. Unfortunately those terms stuck. I still like my terminology better and will cling to it regardless punishing anyone without mercy who calls it that stupid other name. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:13 pm

It's just a function of where the 'anything'-wing terminology comes from.
Now it just refers to an exceptionally focused, single unit type (total, or as the backbone), army that overwhelms due to quantity and quality of said units.
Before it was just 'Deathwing'.

My friend Tim ran true 'Wraithwing' with the last codex, and we regularly lamented the unit size more than anything. 3 per unit, maxed at 9 in the army, really made it unworkable with the last 'dex.
I always hoped they'd bump unit size up to the same (or, gawd forbid, more) as Destroyers.
He always wanted more wounds.
Neither of us ever thought they'd deliver both (which easily compensated for the loss of WBB/'Protocols)...much less at 1pt per model LESS!
I usually ran 6, and a 5 man unit of destroyers (sometimes flip for 3 and 10).
He ran dbl destroyer lords frequently, I usually ran one but sometimes would amp up to two.
He had a great converted pair for his D-Lords. made from Wraith bodies, wrapping around plastic cake columns.



But on topic, I think you could definitely find a way to work in some unpredictable/extremely long ranged firepower into your GK with Tau allies...couldn't hurt!
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:20 pm

Exitus Acta Probat wrote:
apparently, by prior comments, I (on the other hand) should prove to be easy pickings.

Strictly based off of your last meeting with Warmonger...maybe Painnen's Tau could take his Troops out. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:35 pm

Exitus Acta Probat wrote:
It's just a function of where the 'anything'-wing terminology comes from.

With this in mind.... if I ran all Plague marines, it would be referred to as "Plague Wing"?
Just wondering. I think a little more creativity in names is needed... ala Wraithstorm. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:22 pm

Hand of Dume wrote:


With this in mind.... if I ran all Plague marines, it would be referred to as "Plague Wing"?


I suppose I wasn't clear enough...
USUALLY the 'wing' appellation is in regards to an army that focuses on either;
a) highly specialized/valuable low-model count (single unit type) units become troops through special means, or
b) relies on a specialty non-troop (single unit type) focus to be so overwhelming that the need for scoring units is secondary.

the 'Wraithwing' definitely qualifies itself based on the latter.
Deathwing(and Ravenwing/Doublewing) was really the first for both, but primarily the former.

and thread Hijack complete! Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Tau 1850 Potential Builds   Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:35 pm

I apologize Painnen for derailing your thread with our trivial arguments on names for units... and the explanations of said units.

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